#28: The Good, The Bad, and The AI

Welcome back to The Junction, a podcast by Venn

Technology about AI and automation without the jargon.

Hosted by me, Mel Bell, and my co host, Chase Friedman.

We're thought leaders, industry experts and visionaries

here to unpack the latest trends in

AI and how we're using it.

Listen for practical advice and a little bit of

banter on how to improve your business and career

by being at the junction of it all.

We're so excited you're here.

Let's jump in.

Chase, welcome back to the studio.

Hey, how are you? It's been a minute.

I mean, you almost got replaced.

Someone's jockeying for your position. You know what?

We have so many talented people in this room,

or in this, in this house, if you will,

this building that, um, it wouldn't shock me, right,

if we had some other people that could just

step in and start doing quotes and statistics.

I don't know, like all sorts of different topics.

So what did y'all talk about last week?

We dived deeper into all of the search, the implications

of search, um, what that means for your business, what

that means for, especially if you're a marketer.

But really we opened it up for like, if

you have an online presence, you should be.

Have some level of awareness of this stuff

and then talked a little bit more about,

like, where we see SEO going.

And then, like, what are some other strategies

you should be employing in your marketing?

Like, shouldn't just be 100% online, right?

A lot of businesses were born 100%

online, but they should still have a.

Maybe an event strategy. Yeah.

Um, they should be other places outside of Google, which we

are going to get into all the tea about Google, all

of the drama, um, here later in an episode.

But yes, go check out the episode.

Jacob crushed it.

Yeah, you definitely need to listen to that. And, uh.

Cause like I said, I mean, he's coming for your seat.

Well, you know, we can just add another seat and then

it could be, you know, the three of us chatting. Yeah.

Like you said, we got a lot

of really smart people in the building.

We just need to figure out how to get some

of their time so they can talk about other, the

other things that they're working on in AI and automation.

I think we also have a number of guests too,

that are lined up that will be really interesting to

talk to in the topic of AI and automation.

So there's certainly no doubt that we're going to

have people in the room that have a good

idea of where this is all headed. Yeah.

Well, in the meantime, thanks for coming back

from Memorial Day weekend, did you have a

restful holiday or were you on the go?

I did have a restful holiday.

Got a round of golf in.

I didn't shatter any windows or wreck any golf carts.

So my father in law, I think, was impressive.

I did ask him, you know, would you believe me if

I told you this was my fifth round of golf?

And he was like, yep.

Yeah, your swing is terrible.

So also got to go to my daughter's dance recital.

I did a little shimmy on the stage with the

daddy daughter dance and didn't make a fool of myself.

So. Wow.

You know, I can hammer the keyboard and I can, you know,

shake and bake off on the stage, but all things that AGI

has not taken from you yet, maybe get a clone.

What about you?

Any big things happening? No.

You know, I did a lot of cooking.

Did some, had some time by the pool with friends.

Other people's pools. Yeah.

So, yeah, I know it was fun. I.

I didn't go anywhere.

Although Memorial Day and the upcoming 4 July holiday is

always a huge travel weekend here in the US. Oh, yeah.

Stumbled upon this article of Airbnb.

They've actually been using AI

for this predictive booking.

They call it the heightened holiday system. Interesting.

They've been using it since May of 2023.

And so they've got these, like, AI, you

know, LLM models that look at reducing the

most disruptive parties during this time.

These, like, peak holidays, which

I thought was really interesting.

It's kind of like, maybe we shouldn't

go so far as to say screening. Right.

But they're looking at factors

like last minute booking.

Is it in your hometown?

So, like, I would think that if you're booking

something in your hometown, you're more likely to, like,

be going to throw a party or something.

I don't know if that's kind of going

into it, but, like, the type of listing

that's getting booked, the duration of the stay.

And so what they've done is this

particular article quoted or cited some data

from, like, New Jersey, specifically homes.

And it basically, it listed, it had screened, like,

1600 people from basically being able to book.

Interesting. Yeah. So I.

It started my wheels turning on.

This predictive analysis.

Like lead scoring, for example, has been around for

a long time, but this type of logic applied

to whether or not you are going to allow

a customer engagement or consumer buying behavior in favor

of maybe one that, you know, is less likely

to result in increased cost or risks.

So, like, this, this type of party looks

like they may be, you know, partiers.

Partiers.

And we don't want them to, you know, damage the home.

And now I'm sitting in between

the homeowner and the renter.

And so anyways, I don't know what kind

of that sparks for you, but for me,

my brain started going like, how do listeners

and other businesses start applying this, like, predictive

analysis, using AI to their own business model? Yeah.

Well, there's certainly one interesting point

here, is that they are restricting

the listing from being shown altogether. Right.

Rather than saying, no, we're not gonna

help you, you know, or, hey, book

anything you want, you know, all out.

Just give us your money.

Um, and so it's almost this.

It's like this marketplace that's trying to limit their

own liability because if they went and caused 30

grand worth of damage, it's not the homeowner that's

going to pay for that, it's Airbnb.

Um, they've got some kind of fund that

I've read about where they pay people out.

Um, right.

But it's also about, um, providing

the best experience because they're.

The supply of homes comes from people. Right.

And if.

If they don't have a good experience, right.

Nobody wants their home wrecked and

30 grand worth of damage.

Um, nobody wants that. Right.

So it's all about providing the best experience to

not only the front end customer, but the people

that work at Airbnb answering those Karens that are

calling in and the people that are supplying it. Right.

What I also think is interesting, though,

is that it's almost like a.

It's like a negative lead score,

like a social score almost.

Because honestly, I think I've had this pop up.

Like two years ago, we were trying to

book my family and my buddy's family.

We were trying to go to a lake house.

And after you went to book it, it would

say something to the tune of, sorry, based on

da da da, we can't let you book this.

It wasn't like you're a partier, but it basically

kind of figured out that I was going to

take people here for a short duration anyway.

I think they've had this for a while, but I,

at the very least, like the idea that they're not

even showing those possibilities because now it makes it harder

for those particular parties to book real parties.

Right.

But the people that just want to have

a get together in a nice house, it

doesn't maybe hopefully doesn't exclude those folks.

But, yeah, I mean, I'd be lying if I said I

didn't think that there was some social aspect to this where

it's kind of keeping you in check from a.

The Airbnb host and the Airbnb renter both have

an opportunity within seven days to review one another.

So there is sort of a check and

balance of, like, if you've had a.

Not a positive experience, I do believe that in the

app, they allow you to submit private feedback to Airbnb.

You can submit private feedback to the host, but then

you can also rate them publicly on the profile. Yeah.

They have an opportunity to respond to you.

So there's that.

And I've wondered before, I just like my uber rating.

I am very protective of my Airbnb rating.

If I'm, my name is on that Airbnb and

you're my friends and you're staying with me.

We are stripping the sheets, we are emptying the

trash, we're doing compliant, we're leaving it nicer than.

And I actually had a review once upon a time that

was like, they left it nicer than when they came. Wow.

I take great pride in that.

And there has to be something now

that was a qualitative type thing.

But, like, if you've only ever gotten five

stars and things have been pretty, like, oh,

the host has always reviewed them.

They've always reviewed the host.

There's got to be some score

that allows you to, you know. Right.

Well, I'm thinking about small businesses, and the way that

you implement this is with a lead score of sorts. Right.

Um, where you go in and, uh, lead, or you

score the people that are coming through the door.

Right.

And we've been doing things like this internally.

People have been doing it for a long time.

Even, you know, 2030 years ago, you're hopping

on the phone saying, hey, what do you. Who are you?

You know, what do you do? Do you need something? I have.

Do you have money to spend?

And so from that front,

like, this isn't necessarily new.

What is new is that the technical ability has

become much more ubiquitous and easy to access, where

it makes sense to now develop things like this

based on the data that you already have. Right.

So I think the best way to start focusing in

on stuff like this is gathering data points around the

leads that are coming in the door or finding access

to that so that you can do some kind of

predictive, predictive analysis at the very least.

Um, it's making it easier, right?

It used to be so much harder. Oh, yeah.

Like what insurance companies have been

doing for a super long time.

It's all risk analysis, right.

Constantly changing. Yeah.

And now it's making it more accessible to, um, I

guess businesses wouldn't otherwise be able to do it.

It does require a massive amount of data, but, you

know, it's still one of those things that, like, you

just didn't used to have these types of tools or

access to the tools to be able to do it.

So if you can start thinking of strategies,

how you might use it, well, you can.

Airbnb is kind of restricting things

from the buyer in this case.

For somebody that doesn't get, you know, a billion leads

per month, maybe two or three, I think a better

way to think about it is what does this person

bring to the table that they need from me, and

how much value does that provide to them?

And if you can have some kind of scoring

indication that 100 is like, man, they're ready to

buy, they got a ton of money.

They can't wait to buy a whole lot from

me, then that's way better than you don't know.

Any kind of lead score is the first

step to this kind of predictive analysis.

Yeah, well, moving along, because I cannot

wait to get to the Google T.

So the last episode, Jacob and I were talking about

this new AI snippet, you know, the feature we call

the SG that basically says this was generated using AI.

Few days later and it blows up.

The people started testing it.

The people said, okay, google,

let's take your AI responses.

And for example, in case any of our

listeners haven't heard or seen any of this,

it's been floating around all of social media.

But one of the user questions was,

how many rocks shall I eat?

A lot.

It says at least one.

At least one per day. Oh, yeah.

With my cup of milk and my eggs.

It actually suggests having it in foods

like ice cream or peanut butter. Oh, yeah.

Cracked my teeth, basically.

Like, when, you know you have to serve

your dog medicine, you put it in a

piece of cheese or some peanut butter.

Yeah, yeah, just put your daily serving rocks.

You know, there was another one too, that was

maybe a lot less or a lot more serious.

There was one that I saw a picture

of where the question was, I'm feeling depressed.

And the response was, one Reddit user

suggests jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge.

Which is like, no, that's not what we want to

tell people that are in that state of mind.

Because the Golden Gate bridge is historically

a place where people would go.

It's really sad to see things like that because,

you know, people are typing in those things.

I think you can even look on trends, right, to see

sort of the state of mind of the global populace, right?

How many people are typing in keywords like this?

But it's also disturbing, because what you guys

were talking about last week is, well, I'm

searching Google for an answer, and now AI

is answering it, and maybe there's some that

are less obtuse or just straight up wrong.

And people just take that and they

don't search anymore, and now they don't

click on anything, and they just move.

They just move forward.

Um, anyway, so it's quite obvious that they didn't

do a whole lot of testing here, right.

That, um, people.

People were going to stress test this.

I mean, I'm sure they get stress tests every day on

something else, but it's almost like they were rushing to get

this out the door to try to say, hey, we're.

We're still here, right?

We're still doing stuff.

Um, yeah, because if I'm not mistaken,

they started rolling some of the stuff

out during the Google I O conference.

Well, there was a big scare because, um,

uh, OpenAI registered, uh, the domain name.

It was like, yeah, search dot OpenAI.com, right?

And there was a big dip in Google

stock, because now OpenAI is going to do

get into the search the search world.

What did the stock do when

the whole Scarlett Johansson thing hit?

Yeah, I didn't look at that.

But I imagine, I mean, if Sam

Altman can tweet forwards and drop the

stock, $30 billion, like anything like that. Right.

Is of consequence.

I imagine, when this started hitting last

week, right, their stock started diving or

started going down, at the very least.

But that's one of my takeaways, though, is

you have a multibillion dollar company with infinite

amount of resources, infinite amount of talent, and

they couldn't get this right either.

You rushed this so fast that you didn't

do any gut checks, or the people doing

the gut checking were like, hey, hold on. Don't do this.

And they said, go, go.

Anyway, um, and they are ultimately feeling the

pain, right, of rushing this out the door.

So the other thing that it tells me,

um, is that this market, this whole thing,

is up for anybody to grab, right.

If the people with the most money and

the most time and the most man hours. Right.

Can't get it, right, well, maybe you can, right?

Maybe you don't need time and money.

Maybe this is something that we don't have decades of

experience in, you know, to go find, like, oh, yeah,

I'm just going to hire, like, these three or four

people and we're going to make a banging product.

Um, anyway, that's what I've learned from this.

Um, hopefully they get it fixed up.

Um, I don't know if they've, like, just cut

it out because I think I saw some from

today, but we'll see how it goes. Yeah.

We didn't even talk about the one

about putting glue on your pizza.

No, but I do that, don't you?

That explains a lot.

He's just eating it.

Did you disable my little.

No.

Oh, your sound effects?

Yeah, you said you were going to disable them.

Got a kick out of those when

I was listening back to it. Yeah, yeah.

A couple episodes ago. It was good.

That was a good time for the. But, um.

Yeah, well, maybe we can stitch that

in or just go without it.

So, moving on from Google, um, it just seems like

if it's not OpenAI in the news, it's Google.

If it's not Google, it's Elon. Yeah.

Not just, it's just Elon.

That's a good general, like, I mean, there's

a ton of stuff going on, right.

There is all that stuff.

It's kind of silly.

Like, it's like, almost like the.

What are those things called?

The magazine tabloids?

You know, like, I'm getting these in digital

headlines and newsletters, but really, sometimes I wonder.

This feels tabloid ish. It does.

Well, it's like, it's fear.

Fear gets the most clicks and it's the

outrageous that gets the second most clicks. Right.

Which made me wonder with the whole Google search thing

was like, what percentage of this is in fact, like,

I mean, it's not wrong to say that the testing,

you know, there's clear, there's clearly gaps, but are we

just seeing like the worst of the worst?

And, you know, well, at the very least,

they should have learned from OpenAI's, I'll call

them the early days, like chat three, 3.03.5. Right.

People were trying to jailbreak it.

I mean, you could literally ask it,

how do I build a bomb?

And it gives you ounce by ounce ingredients,

which they, you know, finally got rid of.

But Google should have, at the very

least thought through, hey, um, they're probably

going to stress test this.

What if we typed in I am depressed, right?

And boom, it spits out this thing.

Like, at the very least, I don't

know, blacklist that just don't show it. Speaker one.

Well, think about a couple episodes ago,

we talked about how Sam and OpenAI

essentially cut their entire safety team. Oh, yeah.

I wonder if there was a

similar, uh, approach at Google.

I mean, it does seem like in

the landscape of AI tools, there's.

You're the company that is taking a very

strong stance about responsible use, and you are

gravely concerned about the implications on mankind.

Or you're like, let's move fast, let's break things, and

let's not even worry about the next five years.

And it does seem like if you're one

of those, like you're a company with AI

tooling, you sit in one of those camps.

Yeah, well, and it's primarily because of

the way large language models work.

If you were to go build one today, which.

Or you can deploy an open source one where

you don't have any safety mechanisms in place, you

could ask it how to build a bomb.

The question is, like, is it, you know,

does it give you the right amount, the

right ingredients, or the right amount of ingredients?

You get down to accuracy.

But the safety side of things is this kind

of barrier that sits between the large language model

and that end user or that end service that

says it gets the response back and it says,

oh, this guy asked how to build a bomb.

Okay, first off, should we let that

question go through yes or no? Right?

And then we get the response back and maybe it's

something benign, like, hey, I'm trying to diffuse a bomb.

Tell me how this was made.

And, well, that's a slightly.

Okay, he's trying to diffuse the bomb.

Let me give him the response back.

And then the safety layer again comes in and

says, wait a second, this is a list of

ingredients on how to make a bomb.

We probably shouldn't send that out, I think.

Because you've basically got two different pieces of this pie,

at least in the way things are set up today.

You can skip the safety model and just go with

the large language model and pipe data back and forth.

I think that's what we've seen in Google.

What OpenAI did is build a.

They've got a document about this where they've

basically outlined what the safety rule is.

And then for the most part, once you've built it, and

feel free to email in and tell me I'm dead wrong. Right.

But for the most part, once you've built

it, then you're just enhancing that safety layer

over and over and over again.

You don't have to rebuild it every time.

And that's until something else

replaces large language model. Right.

Maybe it's AGI.

I don't know, whatever else until that basic premise

of how this all works changes, you don't have

to build the safety piece over and over again.

You just have to iterate on it.

And that's maybe why some of those people got,

you know, let go is like, we've got the

safety model now we just improve it with better

rules and better checks and balances.

Um, yeah, but I don't, I don't

think Google did any of that.

They just kind of skipped over that.

So hopefully that's coming.

So, moving on to.

I said, ELON, he's the next one on the news. Oh, yeah.

This $6 billion round, like, in their latest series,

B round of funding X AI, it's record breaking.

Like, what is going on Here?

You know, it's such a, if you're a big Redditor like

I am, there's like two, two sides to every story, right?

And everybody's like, at least on Reddit, where

I spend most of my social activity, time

is like, that's not enough money. Da DA DA DA.

Elon's the worst.

Tesla brand is going down.

DA DA DA DA.

For the most part, redditors don't

seem to think about the globe.

He's LIKE, hold my beer.

I just raid 6 billion. Yeah.

He's like, okay, Redditor, what are you? Here's my six.

B.

Elon is a businessman.

He has a team around him that does things.

Maybe he's a little outrageous.

MAYBE he's off the cuff.

Maybe he's trying to be contentious,

to divide people on purpose. It doesn't really matter.

The fact is that he raised $6 billion.

I don't know if I would.

You can't say, like, well, is it REALLY

all that matters is that he did.

And now that he's got a pile of cash, right? He can go.

And there's some big names on there. Yeah.

Well, I'm not saying it's wrong or I'm

not saying he's lying, but it's easy to

be LIKE, oh, $6 billion, you know?

That's not a whole lot of money.

Well, actually, it is a whole lot of money.

It's a whole lot of freak.

That's a whole lot of freaking money.

I think the challenge, it really goes back

to, um, I think you can probably pull

something off, and that's not a shocker.

These teams OpenAI anthropic.

All the audio labs out there, right?

They've laid the groundwork to show you what

if you were to build something out?

It would look like this.

Maybe there's a lot of ins or buts, or

maybe you can change it up a little bit. Right.

But I think the, um, the interesting part

about this is actually what happened last week.

Google billions, if not trillions of dollars, hundreds

of thousands, if not year man hours. Right.

And they couldn't get it. Right.

Like, at this point, I don't think it's about money.

I think it's about understanding that we're operating

in a, in a shift in the marketplace

that nobody fully understands, and no amount of

money is really going to solve that problem.

I think he'll get, you know, he'll get a piece of the

pie, but it'll then boil down to how good is his talent?

I was going to say a lot of this money, too.

And for people who have fears about the job

market, especially those who are fresh in the job

market, coming out of college, um, this presents a

massive opportunity for anyone who's in engineering.

There's tons of job openings out there

for this particular type of work.

I think you'll, I think people are, maybe some

folks are worried about, like, this is a headline

that I think we're talking about the end, right.

But people are worried about jobs going away.

But what really actually ends up

happening is jobs just shift.

You could go back through history, right.

It was the horse or the car.

It was the telephone or the telegram. Right.

It was the Internet or this.

And every time something like this

happens, you just have a shift. Right.

And some of, some people. Yeah.

Will have some pain because they are maybe a little bit

later in life or don't want to change or whatnot.

But if youre coming fresh out of college

and you want to internship quick plug.

Weve got some send us email. Right.

But you need to be on the forefront of

this because this is the beginning of the shift

of not just one in particular market, its the

shift of the entire global economy.

And thats just weighty to say.

Its like, okay, he doesnt know what hes

talking about, but were literally tweeting forwards and

shifting a company stock, $30 billion. Right.

So for Elon to put in $6 billion,

it's like, that's a little head turning.

Um, but the other thing that, uh, stood out, I think,

is the other point to that maybe it was another tweet.

He said AGI by next year.

This is the part where I think it's, we're starting to

get a little, you know, on the outskirts of reality.

Um, not because I don't think OpenAI could maybe, I'm not

saying one way or the other that they could have it.

But, like, he.

He just got $6 billion.

Maybe he's got some stuff

going on, you know, internally.

But if you know anything about Elon and if

you follow Tesla and the updates, he's been saying

full self driving by next year, quote unquote, was

all the way back to like 2011, 2010.

And he keeps saying the same thing over and over again.

I think it's a hype stick.

We're going to get AGI next year. Okay.

Pulling a bunch of money.

We're going to get AGI next.

It's like over and over again.

It's almost like a marketing spielberg to try to.

Don't blame this on marketers. He. Him.

It's him alone.

He actually didn't fire his

whole marketing team, probably. Yeah.

Well, he should talk to you

about how we can solve that.

He's automated it, I guess.

Well, they have some kind of marketing going on.

Well, speaking of job displacement.

Cause you're mentioning that it'll shift and it'll

shift across many multiple verticals and job functions.

There's one particular headline.

Top VC Kai Fu Lee says his prediction that AI

will displace 50% of jobs by 2027 is uncannily accurate.

So he predicted this back in 2017.

This was before any of us knew what Chachpt

was and before it became readily accessible to not

just individuals, but companies, if you will.

And certainly before we knew that being

an AI company was a thing. Yeah.

So, well, I guess. What's your take on that?

You've kind of already teased it out.

You just don't think that because he's saying that

this will affect more white collar jobs by 2027.

Yep.

So three years, I don't think.

I don't think it will deplace 50%.

I think it's going to displace the jobs that

are already before AI most likely to be automated.

And that's the first thing that comes to

mind, is any kind of data entry.

If you're manually clicking on keyboards, doing

double entry, nobody wants that job.

Nobody wakes up every morning is like,

man, I can't wait to double enter

stuff that could be automatically entered.

I think from that standpoint, jobs

like that will be displaced.

Um, he and I do want to make sure I point out,

because the headline doesn't do justice of, like, it is a doom

and gloom type headline if you read it in such a way.

But, um, he's quoted in this article and, you know,

encouraging, like, the use of cha chippity by, by kids

and like, you know, for anyone that says, well, they're

going to use it to cheat, he's very much like,

the sooner we can understand these tools and encourage people

to work with them, um, he also, there's words like

love and empathy and human connection. So.

So I think it's more of a cautionary, like, get.

Get with it.

Yeah, well, I think, I think maybe, maybe he

has, I mean, he's a big vc guy, right?

So maybe he has more access to

more things that we don't know about.

But I like to think that we talk about

this enough to maybe have an opinion on it.

But I would imagine a more accurate statement

is not 50% of jobs will be displaced.

I think 50% of jobs will be altered. Right.

You're going to do your job differently.

And, you know, honestly, we've been,

that's been happening every year.

Every, you know, every year or five years, the

job looks very different than it did today.

The only job that looks any remotely, you

know, any REM, anywhere remotely similar to what

it did 30 years ago is what.

Actually, I'm going to say something.

And I was like, no, actually, that's not it.

Like, what job has stayed exactly

the same for 30 years?

Don't know.

Don't have an answer to that.

Like, you could say something like service

based, like a being, like a hotel.

That's where my brain went to.

But technology has advanced.

Yeah, like, you can't even say flipping burgers.

Like, that's changed. Hey, there's.

Did you, have you been to the McDonald's in

Fort Worth where they have, like, the robot flippers?

No, no.

But I've seen some pretty wild videos on

LinkedIn of these robots that are doing.

They're basically making like a stir

fry and like, a wok pan. Oh, yeah.

And this robot is just getting after it.

I mean, he is banging on the, like,

he's got the dish and the utah.

I mean, it cracked me up.

I was like, wait, is he doing it right? Yeah.

And the subtext was that he trained off of

an actual, like, authentic chef, but watching a robot

do it just was like, way more.

It, it was foreign and entertaining and, well, I mean,

it really boils down to, was it any good? Right.

That's probably the best question.

Well, was it any good?

And what is the.

Have we seen any.

I'm sure the data's out there.

We, maybe we could do a whole episode

on this of like, the investment and, like,

what is the return on investment?

And, you know, the risk that you take with

hourly employees, like the pros and the cons.

There's pros and the cons to all this stuff there.

But the robot deal.

Well, actually, with both, right?

I think the return on investment

in theory is almost infinite.

And that's part of the problem, because if

we can, let's say that I've created an

AE, right, that is fully automated. He does all.

She does all the things, right?

Maybe they don't hop on Zoom.

But, like, if I.

If, mate, if I've perfected one thing

and it's software based, or maybe, let's

say it's one of Elon's robots, right?

I can just make more robots, or I

can duplicate the software over and over again.

That solves a particular role.

I think that's where we get

to the 50% of jobs displaced.

If you can automate an entire role and do

it really well, then we're talking about displacement.

But I think we're so far from that.

There's so many things that individuals do to

get their job done well that I don't

think we're looking at 100%, uh, role automation.

I think we're looking at 50%

of that role being automated.

So, anyway, if you happen to know of any

jobs that haven't changed in the last 30 years

in any way, I'd love to hear about them.

But if you know that much, maybe

you should be on the show. Absolutely. Yes.

Send us an email, thejunction@ventechnology.com.

we would love to hear your thoughts.

Chase is dying to be roasted, so putting that out

out there, he keeps, like, plugging that every episode.

And like he said, we're

always looking for unique perspectives.

If you want to be on the show,

whether in person, virtual, we can accommodate that.

We'd love to chat, or, like I said,

if there's a topic or something that you

want us to talk about, let us know.

If you want to sponsor, you know, you can sponsor this.

This mess.

Anyway, until next time, keep it automated.